They stormed our embassy---killed our people---the crazy Islamic fanatics in Libya. A very great evil.
Millions will deplore their action---and--(verbally) hack away at this BRANCH of evil that grew out of the tree of Islam. Very few, however, will hack away at the ROOT of the evil: ISLAM itself. But that is exactly what I wish to do.
A billion or so people believe that God sent an angel to dictate the Koran to Mohammed.
A billon or so people, therefore, believe it to be the infallible word of God.
A billion or so people are thereby captured by its 7th century ethics and vision of the world.
They wish to convert us all. They wish to impose theocratic government everywhere---supress women--kill homosexuals---install sharia law---and God knows what else.
DO YOU SEE THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM? BELIEF IN THE KORAN. (believing that God sends messages) Let us hack away at THAT root---quit believing that God sends messages. (Believe---if you must---that there is a God----just quit believing in MESSAGES from God--Inspired authoritative books--and your personal religion will not likely turn crazy.)
Muslims---like Christians, Mormons, Jews, Hindus---INDOCTRINATE their children---and children are programed to believe their parents--- that is how religions persist.
Some people, however, (as high as 20 % in the US) seriously question their indoctrination and CAST OFF their indoctrination or modify it.
People who seriously question their indoctrination often discover a daunting truth: THERE IS NO (written) ABSOLUTE TRUTH. That existence is a mystery and the best we can do is TEMPORIZE with THEORIES. They then live life with a more open mind---hopefully tweaking their personal theories as new insights come. Serious questioners are heroes-- hacking at the roots of evil---(BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE.) These golden people develop what no Muslim on earth has---A TOLERANCE FOR AMBIGUITY.
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36 comments:
I remember reading somewhere that just like cultures and civilizations, religions also "evolve."
Islam is only about 1200 years old and hasn't "evolved" much yet. If you remember your history, Christianity and its followers around the year 1200 were quite violent and vicious too (think Crusades, Inquisitions, etc).
Just food for thought.
Sorry, 1400 years.
I see the Islam fundamentalist violence, just like the violence of Christianity in the 1200-1400's, as more about individual (egoic) POWER for the religious leaders than about the religion itself.
History repeating itself.
My two cents.
What you say is true. But the same can be said for most religions, especially authoritative religions. I look at the viciousness expressed by the purveyors of these totalitarian organizations as blatant power grabs. There's nothing like conning people about superstitious magical beings bringing down wrath if you don't do whatever I say. The twisted logic and double speak of insisting it is all about love while fomenting irrational hatred of the other is powerful and dangerous. It certainly does not make people happy, but happiness is the the objective - power is.
Unfortunately, there is a large segment of the human population who are very fearful and want authoritarian control. They are easily manipulated by sociopaths who see their fears (of practically everything) as their ticket to power and riches. It is a fragile balance to keep the authoritarians from instituting their rule over all. Remember how easily Rome lost their freedom.
You are so right that throwing off the shackles of superstition frees the mind and increases happiness. Too bad so many people fiercely cling to their fear and superstitions and then hate those who have freed themselves.
WHAT I dislike most about all people of religious intent is their constant insistance that the way they LIVE Is the BEST/ONLY way to live...it simply is NOT true!! Unless they have tried it all how can they make this claim?
Organized religion is the huge pit and the rath of God is the pendulum...the whole Idea of a Mormon man residing in the whitehouse to me is scary...with Religious doctrine and belief holding their RIGHT hand they are trying to take away women's rights and turn this nation right back to a God n Country war machine!
Yes, those crazy evil fanatics.
In the process of bombing parts of Libya back to the stone age to no good purpose and in clear violation of international law, USA/NATO murdered hundreds of civilians.
You'd think these crazies could show their gratitude in some way other than killing four of our thugs.
Randy, I know what happened was terrible but what Tesaje said, what you said same can be said for other religions. I am friends with several Muslims and they are not like this at all and they deplore what is being done by the more fundamentalist groups within Islam. Don't paint it with a such a broad brush.
The USA is a predominantly Christian nation that killed over 2million Vietnamese. I think it was Jesus who said, "Thou shall not kill." I don't know if he listed any exceptions.
Anonymous said...
"The USA is a predominantly Christian nation that killed over 2 million Vietnamese…"
Actually, since World War II the USA has killed between 20 and 30 million people in dozens of wars and interventions.
Considering that NOT ONE of these countries attacked the USA, or posed any threat to it, then I believe it's reasonable to further develop Anonymous' statement above to:
The USA, a predominantly Christian nation, in just the past sixty years has killed between 20 and 30 million people in dozens of illegal wars and interventions, making the USA federal government the largest and most brutal terrorist organization on the planet.
But a citizen of Libya — perhaps a father whose four-year old child was blown to pieces just months ago by a USA bomb, who in his grief succumbs to violence himself and chooses to join an attack against the USA minion (probably CIA, as are most USA "diplomats" in that part of the world) whose actions, surreptitious and otherwise, almost certainly contributed to the death of his child and destruction of his country — that person must be a crazy evil Islamic fanatic.
John 97205, We don't know what motivated the killers or who they were. In this case, knowledge is more important than imagination. Randy's imagination ignited a rant, but he doesn't know who these people are. Nor do I. It'd be good to know what you're talking about.
The real crime? ---- allowing our country, with its too often intolerant understanding of the Divine (however you define the word), to remain so dependent on those, who by their actions, reflect an equally intolerant world view that does not seem Divine to us.
WOW, I came here to leave a comment for Randy thinking I would be flamed big time.... What a surprise to find so many people who said it much better than me.
The only thing I could add is that the violent Islamic fundamentalist could be compared to the Tea party in our society. .... Most of the Islamic people are not that way just as most of us are not Tea baggers.
Anonymous wrote...
"John 97205, We don't know what motivated the killers..."
Minor reading comprehension error by you: apparently you missed "perhaps," — the fifth word of the final paragraph of my comment you are responding to.
My greater point of course, is drawing attention to an ignorant and racist world view that automatically brands certain people "crazy evil Islamic fanatics" who, FOR WHATEVER REASON and with whatever means they have available, choose to defend themselves against the brutal and terroristic USA empire.
Randy takes pride in engaging people. Surely there are enough comments here for him to chime in. Randy? Are you there? I hope you'll engage in this discussion.
It's so easy to bad-mouth religions, including Islam, because it's PC. And PC-ness isn't a form of "surrender" to blind authority?
I think Randy is quite mistaken when he blames Islam for outbursts of violence aimed at hated, foreign, imperialists -- the USA and Nato and Israel.
I'll bet there were Anglicans in England who saw Catholicism as being to blame for Irish IRA terrorists. The cause of the violence is IMPERIALISM by advanced economies. They can't be fought with the conventional methods of set-piece battles. Hence, terrorism was invented.
But Islamic terrorists are not the CAUSE -- they are only the EFFECT. And as John talked about, above, how many innocent people have been murdered by Islamic terrorists compared to those murdered by American foreign policy?
Wayne: I think you're right on all 3 counts: 1. Christianity committed atrocities. 2. It evolved and moderated. 3. Islam needs to evolve and moderate.
Tesage: Right on! I urge my readers to review your brief and insightful analysis.
Sue: I challenge you to ask your moderate Muslim friends if they really believe that an angel dictated the Koran to Mohammed. If they do---then they too are trapped in the 7th century.
Hugh said:
John 97205, I haven't heard such blatant, exaggerated demagoguery in awhile. Maybe you and your followers, if any, should relax and have some "Koolaid".
Yes, and double yes to Wayne (Wirs).
Yes, to everything John said.
Yes, to what Boonie said.
No, to Randy: The root of this violence and this "evil" is irrationalism. The belief that faith is more powerful than reason. It's the irrationalist philosophies of both Islam and America's imperialism that caused this violence.
And no, Islam does not need to evolve and moderate: it needs to dissolve and disappear. Same with all forms of Christianity and other irrationalist philosophies. There is simply no use for it. If it doesn't cause physical destruction, it's poison for the mind. Or both.
Good post, though. Makes people think and speak out :)
John 97205: Even if the facts you allege are true I'm not sure what you have proved--or what you advocate---if anything. Are you just angry about our complex world?
If I were to engage you I would want to talk about these subjects:
Empires----good or evil?
Wars---when are they useful and good?
Collateral damage----possible to avoid?
False Moral equivalence----
National self haters---
Individual and collective evil---which is larger?
The notion of divine revelation---true or false.
Randy said...
"John 97205: .... I'm not sure what you....advocate..."
I suggest you re-read the final paragraph of my 11:07 PM comment.
I advocate:
"....drawing attention to an ignorant and racist world view that automatically brands certain people "crazy evil Islamic fanatics" who, FOR WHATEVER REASON and with whatever means they have available, choose to defend themselves against the brutal and terroristic USA empire."
Johnny Coughen: I think you've identified the deepest root of this evil---irrationalism.
Hopefully you will go a step further and suggest how rational humans can deal with those universal anxieties that give rise to religion in the first place: DEATH--GUILT---MEANINGLESSNESS.
Until we develop a satisfying rational, secular philosophy for the masses, we may have to encourage the lesser evils of a moderated Christianity and Islam.
Boonie: Wherever Islam has triumphed, it has imposed a culture. At first, energetic and imaginative, but now stagnant and decadent. Let me be blunt: THE ISLAMIC WORLD HAS STUPIDIZED ITSELF
and made itself vulnerable to imperialization. If a nation has someting valuable (oil, etc)and has enfeebled/besotted itself with irrationality---it can EXPECT to be imperialized.
The rage of the Islamic world is really envy and a recognition of their relative powerlessness. Their obedience-oriented religion is the root cause of their troubles
-----seems obvious to me
Religions or myths, whichever name you choose, have evolved in response to our need to explain that which we could not explain at the time.
It is there to help us with our fears, especially death. Historically it explained all things in nature that we did not understand.
Sadly, many humans still adhere to these myths to all of our detriment. Currently Islam is the most obvious.
I am not suggesting that religious people are bad there are many good people who happen to be religious. However, one doesn't have to be religious to live a moral life.
To the other poster. If a Mormon in the White House disturbs you then you should have been freaked by GWB as he thought he had been selected by god for the position.
I would love to see us not move any further to a theocracy than we already are but I am not hopeful.
Jim
As a student of history, I have taken away this: Homo sapiens, whatever their religious beliefs, are extraordinarily nasty animals. From Armageddon to Agincourt, from Beirut to Benghazi. Nothing has ever changed, nothing ever will. We live in a time of relative peace, in a country of relative wealth. Enjoy it while it lasts, it may well all be gone tomorrow.
Ditto to Dr. Dave.
Human beings can only be classified as predatory mammals. Because we are so, we are on top, right now, the most dominant species on the planet. We have killed, eaten, or otherwise used everything we could get our hands on. Even each other. Religion is just one of many justifications we use for doing so.
Of course, it is our frontal lobes which allow us to rationalize our goodness, our purity, our natural supremacy to do so. I always have to chuckle when people refer to themselves as "rational" beings in an attempt to win an argument. They simply are closing their eyes to the fact that their predatory nature, their instincts and the resultant emotions, are the very forces which have elicited their physical mind to produce these "rational" thoughts.
Human beings are indeed a hoot.
I do agree with the final thought....enjoy your freedoms as they are for it is inevitable that they be lost.
The more people that read your blog , the more you can piss off , I LOVE IT !!
Almost every faithful person I've ever known has seriously questioned their 'indoctrination' as you call it. In the West we have a couple of thousand years of wise, learned and thoughtful people questioning, re-examinging and re-thinking everything about Christianity, for example.
I lived 3 years in an Islamic country and came to appreciate the diligence with which many of them question, develop and grow their faith. I'm one Christian who believes that it is not a bad thing that a billion moslems hold as their highest spiritual commitment a desire to submit to the will of God, even while I see that will differently that many of them see it.
Good luck in finding your own peace and understanding.
Rob
I once lived in a crack and whore infested 500+ unit town house complex. One morning at 5 am some idiot came and honked his horn loudly to pick up a friend for work. I went out in my underwear , knocked on his car window and asked if it would be ok for me to go and ring his friends door bell - so the idiot would not need to honk so long !!
As he then gave me his F.....Off and pissed off look, I gently then told him that I just wanted to save his life "because' the meth heads, drug dealers & whores just went to bed at 4 am and that I did not want any of them to stick their guns out their window and fill his car with holes because they were pissed off about his loud honking at 5 am.
RANDY ....just keep up the loud horn honking on the internet, I can guarantee there are no Ali Baba's reading your blog - as they don't read or speak any english.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/15/world/middleeast/anti-american-protests-over-film-enter-4th-day.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all
George, There are many many more successful animals than humans. Cockroaches have been around from hundreds of millions of years. Many of them eat better than many humans. Paramecium out number people and roaches, and were here ions before mammals and insects.
HEY RANDY, NICE TROLL MOST'S RESPOND'S YET. NOW YOU KNOW THAT RELIGIONS! IS THE DRUG OF CHOICE FOR PEOPLE.THEY BETTER START WORSHIP THE TRUE GOD!!. THAT WOULD BE MOTHERNATURE. I JUST GOT DONE MAKING LOVE TO HER RIDEING HER WAVE'S AN AS I WRITE TO YOU. I BASK IN FATHER SUN!!.IT'S GOOD TO BE IN HEAVEN.SEE YA DOWN THE ROAD FELLOW TRAVLER.GARY
Anonymous: Thanks for the warning about how irritated "Ali Babas" could do me in. It came too late--I did receive a death threat from this post---and deleted it. It contained some curses---suggested that unlike other victims of my attacks---they do not just roll over---suggested I remember Salmon Rushdie. I take the warning to heart---will continue my occasional post against irrational religion---and NOT PUBLISH MY LOCATION---till I am gone. I've been considering a post on the irrationality of Mormonism.
Ditto to George and Randy.
Of course humans are also highly social animals, as Randy's traveling vagabond (I mean that in only the complimentary sense of the word) experiment shows. We are quite capable of goodness and kindness, but its mostly out of self interest, I feel. A plane load of our closest living relatives, chimpanzees, flying from New York to Los Angeles would arrive with mostly dead and badly injured chimpanzees. We tolerate each other's presences in the name of social ease and order, but as the spreading riots across the middle east show, that tolerance has its limits.
That very same intolerance exists in the USA of course, look only so far as the rise of the quasi facist tea party and Sikh temple shootings here if you do not believe me. If the US actually elects a Mormon President you will see all kinds of intolerance rear its ugly head. I lived in the theocratic state of Utah the bulk of my adult life, and no one will ever convince me that the Mormon church would not have exceptional levels of influence with a President Romney. You would basically be handing this country, its military and nuclear weapons over to a cult/church that actively seeks the return of Jesus Christ and a fiery Apocalypse. If Romney is elected, I will seriously consider leaving the country.
I love the Onions very NSFW take on this issue: Extra warning, this is not for the faint of heart or easily offended religious types of ANY persuasion:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553
I would very much prefer an atheist in the White House. Of course, I suspect that there have been some who have occupied it that merely pretend to embrace the myth to placate the sheep.
As to a mormon prez I don't see how it would be worse than GWB's religious fanaticism.
I am curious about the point about Rushdie. After all he is still alive so doesn't seem that holds much of a threat.
It is a relative handful of people that keep us progressing and out of the next dark age.
If the most religious nations are the most backward, think Saudi, modern America, etc, then the 'proof of the pudding' will eventually manifest itself..just like global warming and climate weirding.
It doesn't matter if either are denied, because everyone can see the results.
Personal God that cares up front, anybody?
Does anyone doubt the eventual conclusions?
I sure would like to hear some rational arguments to the contrary, if they exist,
because I'm getting really concerned and scared.
Bushman
All religion has the propensity for violence if it feels that its doctrines are threatened, even the ones that claim to be the most peaceful.
Unfortunately, although physical force might curtail them, it will never be enough to seriously diminish it from the world.
I believe that the best way to fight religion is to never allow oneself to be bullied into taking it seriously. Religious people when they exclaim their beliefs should be laughed at and treated as pure comedy, just as any ridiculous spectacle would be.
The battle for reason is lost when reasonable people allow themselves to be pressured into publicly pretending to “respect,” nonsensical ideas and childish claims and arguments.
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